GENERAL SURGERY : POSSIBLE FOR IMGs/FMGs ?
Definitely tough - but a residency in general surgery ain't impossible. A friend of mine recently got a residency position at the Methodist Hospital System in Houston on a J1 Visa and I shall be putting up advice from him pretty soon.
G. surgery has become kinda easier for IMGs over the past 2-3 years due to a reduced interest by AMGs. who are rather drawn increasingly to Anesthesiology , Radiology, Orthopedics...which bring in good pays pretty early in the profession.
On other hand, it still remains tougher than IM or FP or Ob-Gyn, and it usually is a 1-year "preliminary" position that is granted initially without any guarantees from the program about a position later - which means match participation is needed again for categorical positions. Most categorical programs need incoming residents to have completed either a preliminary year or externships / sub-internship. A good place for Surgery Aspirants to consider is the Surgery Subinternship program offered at the University of Washington at Seattle. The program offers 4-6 visiting student sub-internship positions to IMGs each year. Click here to know more about the program and apply.
However, ground work is needed - observerships count a lot ! surgical research too counts. Fellowship options after General Surgery ? These include cardiothoracic surgery (one of the highest paid specialties in USA!) , vascular surgery, surgical oncology, plastic surgery, etc.
Here are some places that are known to have offered General Surgery Observerships in the past:
St. Luke's Hospital of Bethlehem (PA)
Thomas Jefferson University
University of Buffalo
University of Iowa
University of Michigan
University of Nebraska Medical Center
University of Pittsburgh
University of Tennessee
University of Vermont
University of Wisconsin
Vanderbilt University
According to this 1998 Paper, International medical graduates account for 10% of the academic surgical faculty in the United States
And this is what Sameer Khalid, MD from Khyber Medical College, Peshawar has to say on my Orkut Residency Community :
"Surgery is not as tough to get in as it was previously - both scores in mid or early 90s would just be sufficient for an average community based prelim position in surgery. But it would be a prelim position.. Having said that, your chances of getting a second year position diretly would be very slim until and unless your are very very brilliant. And I know of people, amazing brains , great lors, getting into prelim and just cannot somehow get a 2nd or a 3rd year seat..
If you are really really dedicated about surgery, then forget about how long it takes.. the best method would be to get a research position in some top notch university like harvard ( i know ppl who have got in there ), get the research on an H1 visa, work for 2 to 3 years, get a green card, and then apply for a catagorical position in surgery, that is how your future would be safe.. and you would eventually become a surgeon..
Prelim , I repeat once again, is very risky, and I know of a lot of people who have been forced to leave it after an year or 2. As for orthopedics, well it is very close to impossible to get in, but then where theres a will...the only IMGs from pakistan I know who have gotten into ortho, have done the same thing.. as i mentioned above i.e. get an ortho research, paid on an H1 visa, work hard for a few years and then apply to Ortho. People from Aga Khan Med school have made it through this way ..and i repeat orthopedic surgery and general surgery are different specialties.. and residencies !! good luck, hope it helps .."
There are points that some would differ on, like getting a second year position once you have a prelim year feather on your hat may not be tougher. A person I know accepted surgery on a J1 visa and had information that J1-waiver jobs are not at all impossible for surgery either. Accept contradicting information on this blog as options - and see the best of what's possible in your circumstances...
g/l
Also read: General Surgery Salaries in USA
Search Keywords to this blog:
- "sample letter of recommendation residency matching"
- "average usmle score general surgery matched"
- "How difficult is it for a FMG to get a gen-surgery residency?"
- "is general surgery easy for IMGs ?"
- "general Surgery residency possible for IMGs ?"
G. surgery has become kinda easier for IMGs over the past 2-3 years due to a reduced interest by AMGs. who are rather drawn increasingly to Anesthesiology , Radiology, Orthopedics...which bring in good pays pretty early in the profession.
On other hand, it still remains tougher than IM or FP or Ob-Gyn, and it usually is a 1-year "preliminary" position that is granted initially without any guarantees from the program about a position later - which means match participation is needed again for categorical positions. Most categorical programs need incoming residents to have completed either a preliminary year or externships / sub-internship. A good place for Surgery Aspirants to consider is the Surgery Subinternship program offered at the University of Washington at Seattle. The program offers 4-6 visiting student sub-internship positions to IMGs each year. Click here to know more about the program and apply.
However, ground work is needed - observerships count a lot ! surgical research too counts. Fellowship options after General Surgery ? These include cardiothoracic surgery (one of the highest paid specialties in USA!) , vascular surgery, surgical oncology, plastic surgery, etc.
Here are some places that are known to have offered General Surgery Observerships in the past:
St. Luke's Hospital of Bethlehem (PA)
Thomas Jefferson University
University of Buffalo
University of Iowa
University of Michigan
University of Nebraska Medical Center
University of Pittsburgh
University of Tennessee
University of Vermont
University of Wisconsin
Vanderbilt University
According to this 1998 Paper, International medical graduates account for 10% of the academic surgical faculty in the United States
And this is what Sameer Khalid, MD from Khyber Medical College, Peshawar has to say on my Orkut Residency Community :
"Surgery is not as tough to get in as it was previously - both scores in mid or early 90s would just be sufficient for an average community based prelim position in surgery. But it would be a prelim position.. Having said that, your chances of getting a second year position diretly would be very slim until and unless your are very very brilliant. And I know of people, amazing brains , great lors, getting into prelim and just cannot somehow get a 2nd or a 3rd year seat..
If you are really really dedicated about surgery, then forget about how long it takes.. the best method would be to get a research position in some top notch university like harvard ( i know ppl who have got in there ), get the research on an H1 visa, work for 2 to 3 years, get a green card, and then apply for a catagorical position in surgery, that is how your future would be safe.. and you would eventually become a surgeon..
Prelim , I repeat once again, is very risky, and I know of a lot of people who have been forced to leave it after an year or 2. As for orthopedics, well it is very close to impossible to get in, but then where theres a will...the only IMGs from pakistan I know who have gotten into ortho, have done the same thing.. as i mentioned above i.e. get an ortho research, paid on an H1 visa, work hard for a few years and then apply to Ortho. People from Aga Khan Med school have made it through this way ..and i repeat orthopedic surgery and general surgery are different specialties.. and residencies !! good luck, hope it helps .."
There are points that some would differ on, like getting a second year position once you have a prelim year feather on your hat may not be tougher. A person I know accepted surgery on a J1 visa and had information that J1-waiver jobs are not at all impossible for surgery either. Accept contradicting information on this blog as options - and see the best of what's possible in your circumstances...
g/l
Also read: General Surgery Salaries in USA
Search Keywords to this blog:
- "sample letter of recommendation residency matching"
- "average usmle score general surgery matched"
- "How difficult is it for a FMG to get a gen-surgery residency?"
- "is general surgery easy for IMGs ?"
- "general Surgery residency possible for IMGs ?"
Labels: General Surgery, IMGs, Specialty Discussions
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posted by Digitaldoc, MD at 9:07 PM
Comments on "GENERAL SURGERY : POSSIBLE FOR IMGs/FMGs ?"
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Digitaldoc, MD said ... (September 11, 2007 9:11 PM) :
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Anonymous said ... (December 23, 2007 1:19 PM) :
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Digitaldoc, MD said ... (December 23, 2007 1:25 PM) :
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Anonymous said ... (June 14, 2008 2:33 PM) :
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Plodder said ... (October 10, 2008 6:31 PM) :
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Digitaldoc, MD said ... (October 12, 2008 11:31 PM) :
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Plodder said ... (October 13, 2008 5:51 AM) :
Post Your Comment !Anonymous said ... (July 23, 2006 10:49 PM) :
Hi
I am an IMG.2002 grad. completed Obgyn training in 2005. Want to retrain in gen surg. i m doing observership under a plastic surgeon at present and hope to get an LOR. scores are 99/98/cs passed/step 3 taken. how do i apply to maximize my chances? is there a chance i will get categorical position at a uni based hospital?
Robert said ... (April 13, 2007 9:22 AM) :
-*-*-*-
I thought that GEN SURG was getting tougher for IMGs/FMGs ever since the 80hr law. You seem to think the opposite.
Thanx
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Digitaldoc, MD said ... (April 13, 2007 11:50 AM) :
If you looked at the Unfilled positions in surgery and prelim surgery - US seniors filling the seats have been on the decline - 78% in 2007 versus 85% in 2004. And I am hearing more stories about IMGs getting in. Trends keep changing cyclically though..
Anonymous said ... (April 29, 2007 9:14 PM) :
I am an IMG, who was lucky enough to get a preliminary position in a small community hospital. I eventually landed in a university hospital. I was just lucky, think. I have now finished and passed the boards and now inpractice. It was a tough climb, but i think if you persist enough, you'll get. A lot of luck and being in the right place on the right time, certainly helps.
Digitaldoc, MD said ... (April 29, 2007 9:53 PM) :
congrats dude - and if you would like to contribute more about tips for G. surgery for readers, you are welcome to write to : digitaldoc2002@gmail.com
karuna said ... (June 28, 2007 11:48 AM) :
hello sir...
i am still in med school..cud u thrro sum light on how 2 attain researchwork?whn n whre?is it possible during yrs@med skul..i am in 3rd yr..
also,is it wise 2 defer internship and opt 4 an elective?
Digitaldoc, MD said ... (June 28, 2007 11:52 AM) :
Hi karuna,
A medical-school Elective in US would be a good option for a fresh IMG graduate as yourself. In many cases, IMGs medical school itself will accept upto 3 months of internship rotations done abroad as a part of your internship (9 months of their own rotations + 3 months or less of abroad") speak before hand to your internship supervisor and see what can be done. Elective opportunities and application tips have been listed on my USCE - Electives, Observerships & Externships for IMGs Blog
hi,
im afully trained gen sur,cardiac sur from india.im presently doin fellowship in cardiac surgey at cleveland clinic after clearing my usmle 1-3 on an H1b visa.i would like to be board certified in cardiac surgery in US.kindly advise me on the path to be followed to achieve it.
thnx
Hello - thanks for dropping by. To be Board certified, you will need to be first Board Eligible. In some states, the program directors approval after serving an extra 1-2 years in Fellowship / faculty at the same place may get you board eligibility for the exams to get certification. (your program director could communicate with the board officials and get info on this). Other option is get back into IM residency with probably PGY1 waived off at times....
hey
add weill cornell medical college New york presbyterian hospital to your list of observers. I am presently doin one for a two month period.
World famous faculy here, little hands on though!
AJ
Hi - I just have been accepted into the University of Washington sub-internship program from March 1st to April 30th 2009(Thanks a lot DD - I applied to it after seeing this blog). I've tried looking up the value of this program in applying for surgical residencies elsewhere and in UW, but I havent been able to get any input from anyone who has finished this program. One would think that such a program would be quite popular - do you know of any specific reason why it isn't?
Am sure it will be valuable with multiple benefits, there are simply are not as many IMGs applying for General Surgery as there are for IM, FP, Peds, Etc. That might be the big reason why you dont hear much... :-)
Thanks man